View Full Version : The elephant at Skeggness
I remember that on the forum before the one before the last old one (the one that didn't require a user name) there was a post about an elephant drowning in a pool at Skeggness.
Dose anyone know any more about this?
Cheers.
From Tom
Dose anyone have any good elephant stories from Butlins aswell, I've copied the following from the Billy Butlin Story.
They say elephants never forget. I will never forget Big Charlie. Nor will I ever forget Fred. I bought him from Hughie Green?s father, who told me:
?You know, Bill, that elephant can paint.?
?Pull the other leg,? I said.
?No, I?m not kidding. Let me show you.?
Next day he arrived with a large canvas and several buckets which he filled with different coloured paints. Fred dipped his trunkinto the paints and splashed the pain over the canvas, making a jumble of colours. Of course, there was no rhyme or reason to the painting?but then, I reflected, there was no rhyme or rhythym to many abstract paintings, so you see This gave me the idea of playing a hoax.
We cut the canvas into smaller ones and had them framed.
Then I called in the press to see the work of a new painter I had discovered, and invited an eminent art expert to give his views. He examined the ?pictures? carefully and then said things like:
?Yes, I can see what the artist is trying to do. Very interesting.?
?Look at the depth in that one. And the colour contrast in that?
and so on. Then, he asked me ?And what is the name of this artist??
?Fred,? I said.
?Fred who??
?Just Fred,? I replied.
?But he must have a second name.?
?Elephants don?t have second names,? I said.
?I don?t think that is very funny, Mr Butlin,? he said, and
stomped angrily out.
But I did.
Cheers.
From Tom
Anonymous
09-06-04, 12:10 PM
Rumour has it he fell into a outdoor pool next to the main entrance and died. So they just filled in the pool. :shock:
He is still meant to be there today!
Anonymous
27-08-04, 11:05 AM
Is the above roumer really true?
IUf not, then why did they fill in the pool?
That must have been one deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep pool!
Considering Elephants are the worlds largest land animal, which also spent ALOT of their time in the water, so they'd be used to it.
gaietybarryboy
27-08-04, 06:40 PM
Rumour has it he fell into a outdoor pool next to the main entrance and died. So they just filled in the pool. :shock:
He is still meant to be there today!I believe this is true, as I have read it elswhere. As you point out, they are BIG animals so it would've taken more than a rope to get it out! They took the easy option.
That must have been one deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep pool!
Considering Elephants are the worlds largest land animal, which also spens
ALOT of their time in the water, so they'd be used to it.
would'nt it have smelled of dead elephant? LOL
Filling in a swimming pool with a dead elephant in it seems a little far fetched to me.
Looking on the main site, Skegness maps, it shows two outdoor pools up to 1970 then the next map of 1979 the smaller pool is now the crazy golf and now the traffic roundabout just inside the main entrance (are you going next week and want to take a spade)
So we are talking 25-34 years ago surely someone on here must have worked at Skegness during these years
I am having trouble finding any reference to any elephants at Skegness.
Have Fun !!!
J-UK
What happened to Charlie the elephant at Filey http://www.primrosevalley.co.uk/charlie-the-elephant.htm
barryislandfan
28-08-04, 01:25 PM
I think this is folklore thats run away with its self. Even way back then, health & safety officials would have been horiffied to have a dead elephant lting in a swimming pool and then have him covered over. Like Joe says the liklihood of an elephant drowning in a outdoor Butlins pool is pretty unlikely as standing he would have been too tall and unless they are shot elephants arent in the habit of tripping over and falling into things!
Its a nice story (well actually its not is gruesome :D ) but I have a feeling thats all it is, a story.
jcmelbau
28-08-04, 01:30 PM
I think that it's true.. I remember they interviewed the elephant keeper or someone that knew him at Skegness for the TVS program 50 year celebration. I do have this on VHS somewhere in the UK so cant verify that sorry :(
Dont think the swimming pool was filled in though, one of the lifeguards was paid to go into the pool and shackle its legs so it could be picked up by crane. I think the elephant's name was gertrude..?
Jay
afraid the elephant story is true as told by billy butlin in his story.....an elephant did fall into the pool and drowned at skegness.. as for filling in the pool there is no mention of that......charlie the elephant at filey had to put to sleep after the death of his keeper.....the elephant had built up such a good relationship with the keeper that after his death charlie began to fail and they were advised by experts to put him to sleep
I think that it's true.. I remember they interviewed the elephant keeper or someone that knew him at Skegness for the TVS program 50 year celebration. I do have this on VHS somewhere in the UK so cant verify that sorry
Dont think the swimming pool was filled in though, one of the lifeguards was paid to go into the pool and shackle its legs so it could be picked up by crane.
Just confirming that the above is correct - it does say this in the TVS Hello Campers documentary.
Keith
barryislandfan
29-08-04, 02:23 PM
afraid the elephant story is true as told by billy butlin in his story.....an elephant did fall into the pool and drowned at skegness.. as for filling in the pool there is no mention of that......charlie the elephant at filey had to put to sleep after the death of his keeper.....the elephant had built up such a good relationship with the keeper that after his death charlie began to fail and they were advised by experts to put him to sleepYeah just checked Billy's book again and its true. Ive read the book recently and yet forgot all about it. I think the covering up of the pool afterwards though may just be a tall story!
Anonymous
30-08-04, 12:16 AM
Sorry guys,
I posted that he was still under the rounabout at the main entrance. This is a what i heard a few years ago at work and knowing that the elephant drowned, i thought it must be true!
skegred
31-08-04, 01:49 PM
l was a Redcoat at Skeggy in 1963 and was passing the South Pool when l saw the Elephant trot into the pool and drown,they say elephants go to water when they know they're going to die,and l believe this is what happened
Anonymous
31-08-04, 02:16 PM
What happened to it after death though? There seems top be several stories about this.
Well if it was 1963 it must have been fished out as the pool was still in use till the 70's
Have Fun !!!
J-UK
barryislandfan
31-08-04, 03:35 PM
Well if it was 1963 it must have been fished out as the pool was still in use till the 70's
Have Fun !!!
J-UKWell Billy himself does say in his autobiography that an elephant drowned in the pool at Skegness, but it only get a 1 line mention, doesnt say what year or if they filled the pool in over him. I think it very unlikely and slightly macarbe that Billy Butlin or the authorities would have just allowed a dead elephant to be left n the pool and covered over, Billy Butlin wouldnt have allowed it.
Imagine if that had happened in 2004, Butlins would have been in so much trouble with the authorities on the RSPCA. Enviromentalists would have been up in arms, the media would have had a field day (especially on a slow news day) it would get Butlins alot of adverse publicity, back then it was probably the other way around. Although I will point out that Billy did care for the animals Butlin's looked after.
skegred
31-08-04, 06:02 PM
The elephant was definately lifted out and taken away,l'm not sure when they filled the South pool in as l did my last season in 1963.
Also tragic l think you'll agree is the demolition of the Gaiety Theatre( also called Butlin Theatre when l had my first season),such a lovely 2,000 seater,every one could see ,not a post in sight had many a top artist there
Anonymous
31-08-04, 11:15 PM
Why was this building demolished? (Gaiety theatre) Wasnt it a listed building? Surely it could have been removated? Thoyught if it was like the Junior showplace, it was slugjtly old fashioned.
I'm surprised it wasn't listed - it was a lovely old building - and you could actually SEE the shows that were on.
However, it was very tatty, possibly too large, and anyway they had to make room for that pay go-cart track, didn't they?
Didn't I read somewhere that the main body of the Gaiety was a kit, which has been moved to Fantasy Island? This could be total rubbish! But when we drove past during demolition there was just the Gaiety front wall standing with nothing behind and no rubble. Strange.
Keith
Anonymous
31-08-04, 11:24 PM
When you say Kit, do you mean the actual building, or the chairs etc inside?
Where could it have been moved to at Fantasy Island?
The chairs, all the inside and main shell were an ex-exhibition theatre 'kit'. The brick front wall was just fascia.
Keith
Rainbow
31-08-04, 11:33 PM
i liked working in the gaeity in skeg, didnt get alot of chance to tho as i was usually in the junior showplace, there wasnt anything wrong with the junior showplace, was great place for the jids to go and watch the shows, needed new chairs and mayb the odd bit of paint here and there, but was nice kids venue to work in, only thing i didnt like about the gaiety was there was more chairs to put up, after the show we used to have to go along the rows putting up the chairs, also had to do this in junior showplace, i went to 3 great end of season entertainments partys which where held backstage in the gaiety theatre. i always thought it was a listed building
Anonymous
31-08-04, 11:39 PM
Hi Rainbow. Its james1 here, but not logged in.
Maybe the Junior Showplace wasnt that bad actually, i think I am thinking of the Gaiety thretre. I remember watching Fly Away Home in the junior showplace, I think! YEah, it did just need a lick of pait, and a little refurbishment the more i think about it.
Rainbow
31-08-04, 11:47 PM
yea james would have been the j.s.p where you watched fly away home, i might even have been the red on duty in there when you watched it, i always seamed to be on film duty when it was that film
barryislandfan
31-08-04, 11:49 PM
I think the reason the Gaiety Theatre's in all the camps have now gone is money and profits. If you think about having a large number of campers sat watching a show for an hour or 90 minutes every evening, with no bar, no amusements etc means they arent spending one single penny. Nowadays while the shows are on you can buy drinks, snacks etc, play in the arcade. It was down to making an even bigger profit than they do already.
For me The Gaiety Theatre was great, we never really went to the theatre at home and seeing a show in the Gaiety felt special. Some of the shows today are good, but would be extra special if they were still in a theatre.
Anonymous
31-08-04, 11:55 PM
yea james would have been the j.s.p where you watched fly away home, i might even have been the red on duty in there when you watched it, i always seamed to be on film duty when it was that film
Yeah, I bet you were!!! Ive most likely met you somewhere along the line! I seem to believe that was about the only time i actually went into that building, which is a great shame.
I am sure i remember somebody telling me that Butlins demoishsed the Gaiety at skegness very quikcly, despite the fact that it was a listed building.
barryislandreunion
01-09-04, 12:00 AM
I am not suggesting for a second that Bourne would do this, but just out of interest what would be the penalty if any company demolished a listed building to suit their own needs? Obviously once done it would be too late to change!
Just curious
Anonymous
01-09-04, 12:03 AM
Yeah, I would be interested to know this too.
Inguess one solutuon is to demolish buildings just before they become listed, to save any trouble. I think this is where Butlins have maybe gone wrong.
barryislandfan
01-09-04, 12:11 AM
Putting on my boring ex council employee hat here :D Just because a building is listed doesnt always mean it immune from demolition. I worked in planning very breifly after leaving school. The council can stop planning permission for listed buildings to be demolished or tampered with in anyway, however the owners of said buildings can appeal to the courts etc to get the permission they need. A listed building is a lot more secure if it has the National Trust or other charitable organisation behind it.
Butlins is a private company on private land. The local council would not want to seriously upset a company that brings in a lot of money to the community in taxes, tourist money etc. The fact that the oldest this building could have been was 60 years old would have made it less likely to be given "special status" to save it from demolition, also if Butlins could prove to the local council that demolishing the building was essential for plans to grow the company they would have probably had permission granted.
Whether they were right or wrong to knock it down is of course another matter, but what most people dont realise is quite a large number of listed buildings are demolished around the UK every year.
Rainbow
01-09-04, 12:14 AM
even if it was listed, accidents happen, maybe some one was a bit careless with a bulldozer.
barryislandfan
01-09-04, 12:16 AM
I am not suggesting for a second that Bourne would do this, but just out of interest what would be the penalty if any company demolished a listed building to suit their own needs? Obviously once done it would be too late to change!
Just curiousIt depends on the grade. If it was an A grade listed building (which i very much doubt this was) then the fine could be huge, but it all depends on the local council. I cant remember how the grades went now but Grade A was mainly reserved for manor houses, churches and buildings of historical value of more than 100 years old.
Anybody who knocks down a listed building without permission is liable for a hefty fine from the local council, although not in all cases. Also just because a building is old it isnt always listed.
Like you say BIR once the building is down you cant change it, and for many companies the fine is worth it.
skegred
01-09-04, 03:56 AM
Dont think the Gaiety(Butlin) theatre was listed as it wasnt old enough, it was bought down from the Glasgow Exhibition in late 30s and rebuilt.
Can any one remember the signs Billy Butlin had put up each side of the Knights on horseback:- "The largest Air Conditioned Theatre ln Europe",
only because it had about a dozen double Exit doors each side the Auditorium,used to be opened to the paying public till 1954,many top line artists have graced that stage,have a few programs of the time
gaietybarryboy
01-09-04, 07:39 AM
Age has nothing to do with it, as I have mentioned before, Birminghams Rotunda in the Bullring is a listed building and that opened in 1964.
barryislandfan
01-09-04, 11:03 AM
Age has nothing to do with it, as I have mentioned before, Birminghams Rotunda in the Bullring is a listed building and that opened in 1964.Thats true, its down to architectural importance as well. I think the Rotunda is an awful building but it sums up an era of British history and thats why its a listed building. As I said before though its not as difficult as people think to get permission to demolish a listed building. By law IF the theatre had been listed (im not too sure it was) then all Butlins would have had to do with apply to the local council, the council would have put notices in the LOCAL paper and in the LOCAL area, if any LOCALS objected then they may not have got permission. I put local in caps because that sums it up, how many locals would have known the historical meaning of this building, at least to Butlins historians. As I said though this is all a council decision and they cant wast council tax payers money putting notices around every town in the UK!!
What other Butlin's Buildings are listed ???
I remember something about the ends of the chalets at Bognor being of historical importance but were they listed ?
Have Fun !!!
J-UK
Rainbow
01-09-04, 10:54 PM
isnt the old chalet at skeggy a listed building.
Anonymous
01-09-04, 10:58 PM
Yes, Grade 2 listed Building idnt it? Or am I completly wrong!?
gaietybarryboy
12-11-04, 08:02 PM
Back to the elephant story, Hello Campers says the elephant was lifted out on the second attempt, so is not still there.
barryislandfan
18-11-04, 03:39 PM
Back to the elephant story, Hello Campers says the elephant was lifted out on the second attempt, so is not still there.No to be honest I think it was just a nice (well actually horrible!!) story a bit of myth I suppose. Even back then health & safety would have gone nuts had they just concreted over him!!
gaietybarryboy
18-11-04, 06:42 PM
Back to the elephant story, Hello Campers says the elephant was lifted out on the second attempt, so is not still there.No to be honest I think it was just a nice (well actually horrible!!) story a bit of myth I suppose. Even back then health & safety would have gone nuts had they just concreted over him!!Nice wording Dan, I've got a great mental mage now :wink:
skegred
19-11-04, 09:21 AM
As l mentioned in an earlier posting l actually saw the elephant drown in the swimming pool in 1963,it ran past me and just went in the pool
l remember the Entertainments manager Mr "M"( Frank Mansell)saying to me whats the elephant doing in the pool andy,? and l said "lt looks like the breast stroke to me Mr "M" :lol: :oops: :oops: sorry
l remember we had elephant steaks,pies and sausages for weeks, :lol: :oops: :oops: sorry
The truth is it was definately removed ,the pool was quickly partitioned off and it was lifted out by crane with chains around its back legs
billybusdriver
19-11-04, 11:12 AM
Oh er. The animal rights activists would have had a field day if they had been around in them days, especially if they saw such a spectacle
gaietybarryboy
19-11-04, 06:17 PM
l remember we had elephant steaks,pies and sausages for weeks, :lol: :oops: :oops: sorryThe campers noticed there was something rubbery about their meat that week.
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